I'd like us to think through some of the points raised in Alan Jamieson's book A Churchless Faith, which analyses why so many people choose to leave evangelical/charismatic churches and to consider if we can develop our 'outreach' to such people.
Had every intention of coming along to this session too, as it is an issue very dear to my heart right now... ho hum! Would it be possible to summarise what happened on here and maybe to continue the discussion?
Hi Tim, Andrea, Jo - I'll write a summary when I get a minute in the next few days unless someone beats me to it, and I'd love discussion to carry on here. The book is available to borrow too from our library.
I'm very much up for this too, not being able to make the meetings.
I'm certain that my faith has, for some time, been more real outside of church meetings than in them.
I'll happily admit that I haven't picked up my Bible for over a year. And what with Kitty's morning naps, church attendance has been sporadic to say the least.
But to my delight, I've found that God's still there, in the everyday stuff I do. Thankfully He's not limited to buildings, feelings or good-deeds.
As my dog-walking friend says, "He's out there with me in the fields."
I'll post later to summarise the discussion, but here is a summary of the material I presented first, itself a summary of the book.
In his research for the book Alan Jamieson interviewed lots of people who had left evangelical churches after being heavily involved in them, and categorised them.
At the left there are people who leave the church because of a specific grumble with it; maybe a personality clash or a feeling that the church is being too liberal over some matter. These people are termed 'disgruntled followers' and they still keep the same set of beliefs and practices of the church, but try and go it alone. They often listen to Christian radio, read magazines and books to try and keep receiving teaching.
The other sort of people who leave church do so because they have problems with the overarching belief structure of the church, termed a meta grumble. Perhaps they realise that some issues are not as black and white as their church has led them to believe. Very few of these actually lose their faith (1%). Others go into a 'reflective exile' phase where they retract inwards and begin questioning all of their beliefs. They might still attend the church, but will withdraw and sit and at the back.
Sometimes these people will come a point where they begin to build up again the faith that they ripped down, but on their own terms. These people are termed 'transitional explorers' and they begin to engage and meet again with other followers, perhaps in a setting like SofaChurch. A few people in this category drift into new age beliefs or become agnostic.
The stage after that is termed 'integrated wayfarers'. These people have rebuilt their faith completely and can confidently consider all manners of spirituality and decide whether or not to engage with it. The fear of not conforming has gone away for them.
Mapped below these categories is a representation of the different stages of faith that people can progress. 2 - literalist - has very fixed and simplistic views of God. 3 - loyalist - feels very strongly attached to the church family and accepts all of its teachings wholesale, and will defend them uncritically 4 - critic - examining the assumptions and theology that they have received critically 5 - seer - able to draw on different traditions and faiths to build up an integrated belief structure 6 - saint - has completely resigned all self interest and dedicated themselves to serving others (very rare - think Mother Teresa/MLK)
Typically, evangelical churches cater for people in the 2 and 3 stage and are poor at supporting people in stage 4. SofaChurch perhaps caters best to people who are in stages 4+ who are keen to engage with questions. What can we do to better support people who are reflective exiles or transitional explorers who haven't yet found us?
I would suggest attendance at Body Mind Spirit fairs and such like to garner more interest. Those are the spiritual marketplaces like Acts where p*ssed off ex Christians go to synthesize their beliefs, where you can (not always) get strong identification with church / belief grievances, and reach out to many with a similar journey - who on finding that the church service (a complete misnomer - dis-service is more appropriate) and church life leaves a BIG whole in their life go in quest of that something extra which the church seems unable to provide.
Revd Philip Goggin (his church websiteHERE)is doing this on a solo basis locally, and having gone to a few fairs in the last decade as a punter, and exhibited at one in America last month, I observe spiritual hunger and enquiry with 'seeking' struggling or 'ex' Christians are alive and well.
Paul went to the spiritual marketplaces. Something most Christians seem afraid to do - but it's blindingly obvious.
Great idea, Tim. I know in churches I've been in in the past, they would have been horrified at the idea of any of their members attending anything even vaguely new-agey. It's rather strange to be so afraid, when we're supposed to be convinced that our God is the biggest, isn't it?
you got it Suse. The faith of most is a complete misnomer in this respect. The big bad world is besieging us, the devil (or whatever power works for ill) is bigger, better armed and everywhere. Better hide with God inside our buildings a few times a week.
Wise Jesus say "naughty words". He say "Ever heard of Omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent?".
Summary part 2 Here are some of the things we discussed in the evening.
We thought about the different groups of church leaver and how we could support them.
Disillusioned followers: We can perhaps provide a temporary place to refresh, even if the theology is not necessarily shared.
Reflective exiles: By nature, they have chosen to be alone and will probably not want to come to SC. We should not want to or try to hurry up their reflecting process. However, can we provide online resources to help their journey? The blog... Unhelpful linear structure Cannot see comments unless you have left one yourself/are an admin Perhaps useful to keep for insider talk and start another dedicated forum for discussion of general theological questions that are relevant to reflective exiles? Should we relaunch the Facebook group? Production of the SofaChurch 'tract' - Andy needs to finish it and pass it around for criticism.
Transitional explorers: These are the people who would tend to slot well into SofaChurch SofaChurch is a well kept secret Should we advertise more so that people out there who would probably like to be involved know about us? Word of mouth is probably the best form of advertising People would perhaps build up to the idea of coming to SofaChurch gradually Is there scope in advertising to MMU students? Should we have the equivalent of a open day, or a well advertised visitor friendly meeting? We could possibly advertise this in churches if it was clear that we weren't intending to poach people from the congregations. We discussed the pros and cons of starting an omega course for people who are questioning their faith. Generally wasn't thought to be a good idea - too academic, relies on commitment to a group etc.
Not sure if I'll be there tonight (17th Sept); really interested in the subject matter but new book deadline, tours work, and sorting out personal life is taking up a lot of my time and I'm feeling the pressure. Expect me if you see me!
Hi,I may not have been to the recent meetings but I am checking in on here and finding it useful and helpful.Aplogies, I won't be with you tonight as I have a headache and probably wouldn't concentrate very well.Chocs x
Apologies for my delay in posting a comment. It unleashed a whole torrent of thoughts and ponderings that writing something brief has actually been quite tricky…. So sorry!
PART ONE :O) “Churchless Faith” reminds me of a similar book “Gone but not forgotten” (based on a survey in England some 10 years ago) whose conclusions were almost identical as to the reasons for the high number leaving ‘conventional church’ – numbers that are now much larger than those actually joining! As Susie commented on previous SofaChurch post a while back, it saddens me greatly that many committed churchgoers often have misconceptions as to the reasons for leaving. Their focus seems to centre on ensuring that they have sufficiently large enough congregations to support the financial implications of maintaining buildings and employing staff etc. It breaks my heart that often they view ‘leaving’ as a form of betrayal to all that they have invested in an individual’s life over the years and that these same folk have seemingly abandoned their faith and rejected them too. There seems little appreciation that often these individuals are simply embarking on the next stage of their particular ‘faith journey’, not that dissimilar to our kids eventually leaving home as they progress into adulthood. We so easily get locked into thinking that the Christian life is meant to follow a specific course when, in reality, God often leads us by very different paths! I can’t help but be drawn to the parable of the Prodigal Son, the story Jesus told of a child leaving and then returning to his father. Think it presents a wonderful analogy too of individuals leaving ‘conventional church’. Here I am not implying that the leaver always goes off to lavishly exploit all they have ‘inherited’ from being part of the Church Family BTW!! But I always wonder if Jesus left this parable deliberately vague to enable us to ‘fill in the gaps’. For example, we are given little idea as to how ‘family life’ was to this son before he left and whether it had changed on his return. Maybe his father had been brilliant but that the son had felt stifled or restricted in some way. Maybe there had been relationship breakdown, sibling rivalry or something. Or maybe the son was simply impatient to ‘go it alone’ and to ‘spread his wings’. Whatever, there were clearly very good reasons for him to eventually pluck up the courage and eventually leave. This begs the question as to whether the church family should expect to have ‘leavers’ as a normal part of family life, just like there are many families out there desperately waiting for and indeed looking for a ‘lost’ child or family member. Is it also possible for churches to actually ‘create’ prodigals? Interesting thoughts.
PART TWO :O) As “Churchless Faith” and “Gone but not forgotten” imply, there are various reasons why folk leave: some lose faith, become disillusioned or feel let down in some way; some, due to changing personal circumstances, find it difficult to attend or simply move away. Whatever ALL find it extremely difficult to return and some are often painfully ostracised by the ‘church family’ because they don’t go anymore. I think it is very interesting that in the parable when the son hits rock bottom he considers returning as one of his father’s workers – maybe he wants to pay back his father’s generosity or to prove himself as trustworthy, hardworking etc. I don’t know, but as a ‘church leaver’ myself for over 12 years, I have often felt that I could only return as a worker, as the lowest of the low: “give me something to do and I’ll try to make up for being away for so long”. Ridiculous really as through leaving ‘conventional church’ God has been more able to teach me a whole load of stuff that I would never have been exposed to otherwise. But it is the actual ‘return’ of the son that completely warms my heart and poses a challenge too. Just as so many families of missing children across our world endure the excruciating pain and trauma as they search and patiently await news, so we can imagine the father waiting and searching the horizon for his son. Maybe his porch light was on all night, a candle at the window as a sign of expectancy. Maybe it was not just the son who had learnt much while he had been away… maybe the father too had changed. Whatever, the father’s exuberant, lavish response and welcome is completely overwhelming. Are we too enduring pain and heartache at the thought of our own prodigals? Are we searching for them diligently, awaiting news of their return? Will we welcome them back with the same warmth, thankfulness and joy? Think we need to pray earnestly too that returners are greeted like this rather than being met by the ‘older brother’ first!! For many folk who leave ‘conventional church’ there are genuine reasons as to why they did so. Some of them may not want to return, although most probably do, if either their circumstances change or ‘church’ is more suited to their needs. But the fact still remains than many ‘leavers’ are so traumatised by either their reasons for leaving or their experiences once they left that returning is actually an extremely difficult and even painful proposition. All too often they are questioned even interrogated, with folk passing ‘judgment’ on what has actually happened to them. At worst they are treated with suspicion or else ‘minded’ and given plenty to do! What a contrast to this father in the parable: he didn’t ask questions, pass judgment or scream and shout, just embraced him, lavished gifts and threw a party! Note too the other parables in this ‘set’: the lost coin and lost sheep – the commitment to look and to persevere with the search. It warms my heart so very much that folk at SofaChurch are keen to searching for these ‘lost one’ out there… as many of us have been ‘lost’ ourselves or maybe still are! We have already tried ‘fishing’ through cafechurch, but it appears that we had our ‘net’ on the wrong side of the boat, the fish had moved, or we’re simply using the wrong technique even ‘bait’! Whatever, there is much for us to think through, pray and consider – exciting times! But let us also hope and pray that for SofaChurch, the ‘porch light’ is still on, shining out to our prodigals as a sign of our genuine love, warmth and exuberant joy as we welcome them home again. For some will be tired, weary and starved, scared and scarred maybe, but certainly apprehensive, yet having learnt so much too. May we, like the father in the parable, embrace them in love, eager to put them at ease and to lavish on them much celebration.
I agree with you, Jo, that it's the Father's role we need to be looking at. He didn't just shrug his shoulders and say, "Ah well, that son couldn't have been that committed to our family in the first place." No, he's running with outstretched arms.
My experience of leaving churches has been that no one has really noticed - which doesn't make you feel too good!
I'd like to add two thoughts to the discussion at this stage: do people in SofaChurch need to be missed more when they don't come for a long time? And how are we responding to the prodigals within the group - those who are searching well outside of the accepted Christian box? Are we as accepting as the Father when the son is our younger brother or sister?
I always used to hate that story as, being a good Christian girl, I really sympathised with the older brother. Then I took what I call my 'year out', during which I put ticks next to as many sins as I could think of. It was only when returning to God at that point did I start to understand what grace was about and boy, was I grateful.
Perhaps we all need to do the younger brother thing at some point. Maybe the older brothers in the church need to stick around and wait for us to get the message that what we're looking for isn't out there at all. And maybe they can be doing the open-armed bit even while we're younger-brothering it about.
I completely agree Suse. Think we often forget how gracious our Heavenly Father is with us, welcoming us back and showering us with His abundant, extravagant love and grace, and such should be our own response to others. After all, we don’t necessarily have had to leave the nest to be a ‘prodigal’…. always wonder if the older brother was a bit ‘lost’ himself even though he’d stayed at home! Agree too that so often the ‘grass isn’t always greener on the other side of the fence’; that what we’re actually looking for isn’t ‘out there’ at all. It’s like Tim hinted at earlier: we’re disillusioned with an ‘illusion’ - we expect the church to live up to a particular set of ‘expectations’ and, when those are not met, some of us leave hoping to find what we’re looking for somewhere else. We’re thirsty and hungry, desperately searching for something to satisfy that deep longing within our soul. Oooooo another exciting topic… don’t get me started! ;0) Interesting that you mention how we should best respond to not seeing/hearing/having contact with SofaChurch folk for a while. Like you, when we started to drift away from attending ‘conventional church’ we were quite sad that no one actually enquired as to where we were. Once we stopped going entirely we were quite shocked to discover that it was assumed that we’d moved away! In “Gone but not forgotten” they discuss the issue of following-up leavers and the survey very much suggested that if churches had actually made some form of positive contact many would not have left! The book also states that often churches actually feel quite nervous of following up folk: frightened that they may be told something they don’t actually want to hear. However, if ‘leavers’ were given an opportunity to ‘de-brief’ before moving on, then the door is potentially left open for them to return more easily. Think it is quite difficult with SofaChurch though. Its very nature means that folk can interact at different levels and this will be reflected not only in their commitment but how often they attend too. Suppose it all boils down to building up relationships with people, learning how they want to be supported and encouraged as often individuals have different ‘needs’. Just like a family, some members may need to see each other all the time, others once a week, some only at Christmas (!!) and others only very rarely. But nothing changes: they’re still part of the same family. The most important thing is that each member knows that they are loved unconditionally, wherever they are and whatever they do. As the SofaChurch motto goes: “Its Ok, you’re with family!”
And isn't that what we all want? To be loved and accepted no matter what decisions we might make in our lives.
I'm steeling myself for rejection at the moment. I've joined a lovely all-girl housegroup at our new church and it's all going really well.
But I've not yet revealed my rather liberal views on all things Christian. I will let on at some point that I don't read my Bible, that I think being a gay Christian is perfectly acceptable, that I hate the idea of quiet times, dislike most worship songs and church services and am almost entirely anti-evangelism.
At the moment they really like me, and I want to enjoy being acceptable just a bit longer! ;o)
I love that SofaChurch has become a group for people who don't necessarily hold mainstream views. It's a challenge too - is there anyone who lived such a life that they would be unwelcome at our meetings?
And the challenge too, to accept people where they are. And to sheepishly bring those deep, dark secrets out and find yourself STILL accepted is just wonderful. To have people accept your views and feelings and leave any questioning of them to God. It's so good.
Perhaps I'll be surprised; perhaps folk will be okay with my views. But I rather doubt that any sort of role will be given me once they work out that I'm a bit of a boat-rocker!
Sorry to really disagree... but I think we might be confusing an interpretation of the parable of the lost son, and what Jamieson concludes in his book...
The whole point is that the picture from the parable is of God the Father welcoming his son back into the Kingdom not the Church! Church does not equal kingdom of God!...
The whole point of Jamieson's conclusions is that people leave inherited church and then find their own expressions of faith OUTSIDE of the church - not come back like the prodigal son...
3 views of the church might help: Please forgive the blunt & over-simplistic language - but it makes the point easier to follow 1) 'We' (the Church) are on one side of the bridge, and 'them' (the heathen) are on the other side. Our job is to send out a call to those on the other side of the bridge, invite them over because life on our side is much better (and as 'they' cross the bridge they are converted). This was the predominant 'inherited' model of church in post-Constantine Christianity. It is still very much around!...
2) 'We' (the Church) are on one side of the bridge, and 'them' (the heathen) are on the other side. Our job is to actually venture out onto the other side of the bridge, live among them, and then bring them back to our side of the bridge. Similar to (2) but at least we try & live among them for a bit
3) We leave our side of the bridge and go and live permanently on their side of the bridge. We try to create Christian community amongst them, with no intention of them coming back over - simply to work out expressions of faith within their culture.
View 3 is what Jamieson speaks about - and unlike the parable of the prodigal son, there is no intention of coming back/returning... Another way of seeing this is when Jesus returns... Many people have the view that 'the saved' will 'go to heaven'... Yet Revelation speaks of a 'new heaven AND a NEW EARTH'... So again God re-creates with what he has, not leaving one thing to move to another... Personally speaking, I have no interest in 'bringing people back into church' though I accept that is a valid expression of the Kingdom of God & Body of Christ... I'd rather be among the mess & work out an expression of faith on the other side of the bridge... Partly coz I believe in an incarnational Christ (& therefore if we're his body that seems a good place to start) For what it's worth I'd humbly suggest we shouldn't confuse church with kingdom... and we are always part of the body of Christ whether or not we're in church...
Eek, apologies Geoff. Haven't actually read Jamieson's book yet. My references to the Prodigal Son parable were therefore purely coincidental, as I hadn't realised that it was referred to in his book too. Infact this particular 'spin' was simply one that I've been mulling over in recent weeks, based on Rob Parson's book "Return of the Prodigals" and also a sermon I heard recently... just thought I'd share it... sorry if it caused offence.
Personally, think that Jesus' parables are open to all sorts of different interpretations... but in essence think we both agree: God loves us totally, completely and extragantly and we should strive to love and accept others in a similar way. Such love is a sign of His Kingdom and so this interpretation is not that dissimilar at all to what you have stated. Maybe I should have used an alternative 'analogy' to explore the different issues involved, notably the need to accept each unique spiritual journey and to offer plenty of love, support and encouragement along the way. Sorry.
In fact I wholeheartedly agree with all that you have written and, like you, align myself to View 3 rather than the other perspectives.
My fascination at the moment is how to best to make contact/respond to/ develop relationships with folk who have found themselves 'outside' the Christian community, for whatever reason... how they are likely to be feeling concerning their experiences and the reactions of others aswell. Think I was also seeking to explore our own experiences too: the process of leaving, why we did it, how we felt and were treated, what it was like 'outside', how it has felt 'returning', whether we actually want to stay and what, at the end of day, do we really need!!!
Sigh... think I'll sign off now and go to bed. zzzzzzzzz
My take on this is that there are two different movements here - one positive and one negative.
Some people theologically 'outgrow' the church they have been part of, for example when they begin to question simplistic black-and-white statements. These people often move away from the church and develop a 'churchless faith'. Often the people they leave behind in the church, who are immersed in an evangelical worldview, view them as 'backsliders' or 'prodigals' where in fact they view their transition as a positive development. For them to go back to the church would be a backwards step in their journey of faith.
SofaChurch could potentially aid these people in their journey of rebuilding a faith without the framework of a proscriptive church that tells them what to believe.
Other people are better described as prodigals; people who decide to turn their back on Jesus. These people want to experience life away from God for various reasons. Some may well see a little later on their life has now become less rich and decide to return to the kingdom. Like God, we should run to welcome them. Although this phase of their journey can be described as a negative one, in the long run it may well help to strengthen their faith or be something they have to go through to help them to properly appreciate life in the kingdom.
SofaChurch people can potentially be alongside them in their exile and show them the way back home - back to the kingdom not necessarily to their original church.
Aww thanks Andy, that’s an excellent summary… so much better than my stumbling wonderings late last night. Been so thinking about this particular parable in the light of our own experiences and how they have been viewed by others. I have lost count of the number of times we have been referred to as ‘prodigals’ and as folk who are ‘lost’ and backslidden. And sadly, all too often we’ve been traumatised by the reactions of ‘elder brothers’. But the fact remains, we have never actually felt particularly ‘lost’ at all and certainly our relationship with God was, in reflection, a lot richer during lengthy periods when we weren’t attending ‘conventional church’. Afterall, nothing can snatch us out of God’s hands and there is no where that we can go to escape from His overwhelming love and care… although we may not always realise or appreciate it at the time! Just think that this is a ‘family’ parable: with the Father being God himself and we his children. Whether we are living at ‘home’ or in the ‘outside world’ nothing stops us from being his children and experiencing His extragant, all-encompassing love for each one of us: wherever we are in life, whatever our experiences, whether we’re residents, ‘just visiting’ or permanently away! Incidentally, I’ve always wondered if the younger son actually stayed or eventually moved on again. But it’s the reaction of the older brother that has always fascinated me: was he jealous, did he feel cheated somehow, disappointed that his dedication/commitment hadn’t been recognised… the list goes on!!! Actually the word ‘prodigal’ is an extremely interesting term. Definitions state wasteful of one’s means, squandering but also lavishness, extravagance, profusion, great liberality. Does this refer to the younger son’s behaviour once he left the family or of the father’s treatment of him? TBH am increasingly thinking that it’s actually talking about the father’s response, both at the son’s initial request to leave and also his return. Which therefore begs the question: which son is the richer – the younger one, who went away and then returned, or the one who stayed? Of course they are both ‘rich’ for they both have the father’s love…. But do they really appreciate it or know it, I wonder?! I’m sorry, but I do think that as parable concerning the Kingdom of God, it is still a useful analogy to explain God’s ‘father’ relationship with us and also the possible responses of other family members. Ultimately as parents our children eventually have to leave home and live independent lives from us. This doesn’t ever not stop them being our children or our overwhelming love for them, there will also always be a place here in our home for them if things don’t work out or they need a ‘stopping off place’ for a bit. But does this ‘spiritual home’ HAVE to mean ‘church’? Increasingly thinking that for many, and me included, it doesn’t mean this at all. Our ‘spiritual home’ is simply our acceptance of our relationship as ‘sons’ to our Heavenly Father. Accepting this and living by it are all that is required and, as such, we are enabled to live within the world as ‘salt’ and ‘light’ without compromise and maintaining our integrity in Him. Not to say that this isn’t a challenge, cos it sure helps having folk around who share in the struggles and joys too! Eek.. by now you'll have probably worked out that according to Jamieson I'm probably a 'critic' and teetering between being a 'reflective exile' and 'transitional explorer' according to my mood. ;0) So do I think a 'churchless faith' can work? Definitely!!!
Ooo Suse, think its great that you're going along to a ladies housegroup at your new church... very brave and you haven't even moved yet! :0) Do hope and pray that your fears won't be realised and that they will accept you and where you are on your own particular 'journey' with God in all love. We certainly do and think you're a real treasure. Big hugs xx
I totally agree, Jo. And it maybe boils down to what we get out of attending a church meeting.
We've just joined a new church near to our new house. We did question whether we felt the need to attend church at all, but decided in the end that it was worthwhile for these reasons: I can rarely make SC, Kitty will enjoy it, we can perhaps contribute, and it's a good way to meet your neighbours.
But as lively and exciting as the church services seem to be, I don't think they will be important in 'spiritual recharge' sort of way.
Like Jo, I dislike ideas of people backsliding or being lost. If God's out there pursuing us, like the shepherd going after that one sheep, then he's with us on the journey, wherever we go.
Maybe the choices we make break his heart or prevent him from blessing us as he'd like to, but I know from experience that he doesn't go away. He's that stray cat who won't get out from under your feet. (Which can be annoying when you're actively trying to get away from him!)
What do folk think about the amount of contact with fellow travelers that is necessary/beneficial in the Christian walk? Is it true that 'the banana that left the bunch got skinned?' ;o)
I'd like us to think through some of the points raised in Alan Jamieson's book A Churchless Faith, which analyses why so many people choose to leave evangelical/charismatic churches and to consider if we can develop our 'outreach' to such people.
28 comments:
Will miss this one, but am interested in the content. This is the most obvious route for my faith to take and makes sense to me.
*watching*.
Sorry, will miss this one - have found myself getting disillusioned with church recently so would have enjoyed discussing.
Andrea
Had every intention of coming along to this session too, as it is an issue very dear to my heart right now... ho hum! Would it be possible to summarise what happened on here and maybe to continue the discussion?
Hi Tim, Andrea, Jo - I'll write a summary when I get a minute in the next few days unless someone beats me to it, and I'd love discussion to carry on here. The book is available to borrow too from our library.
Fantastic, thank you! Yup, would love to borrow the book and count me in on the on-going discussion too! ;0)
I'm very much up for this too, not being able to make the meetings.
I'm certain that my faith has, for some time, been more real outside of church meetings than in them.
I'll happily admit that I haven't picked up my Bible for over a year. And what with Kitty's morning naps, church attendance has been sporadic to say the least.
But to my delight, I've found that God's still there, in the everyday stuff I do. Thankfully He's not limited to buildings, feelings or good-deeds.
As my dog-walking friend says, "He's out there with me in the fields."
I'll post later to summarise the discussion, but here is a summary of the material I presented first, itself a summary of the book.
In his research for the book Alan Jamieson interviewed lots of people who had left evangelical churches after being heavily involved in them, and categorised them.
This diagram summarises the different positions.
At the left there are people who leave the church because of a specific grumble with it; maybe a personality clash or a feeling that the church is being too liberal over some matter. These people are termed 'disgruntled followers' and they still keep the same set of beliefs and practices of the church, but try and go it alone. They often listen to Christian radio, read magazines and books to try and keep receiving teaching.
The other sort of people who leave church do so because they have problems with the overarching belief structure of the church, termed a meta grumble. Perhaps they realise that some issues are not as black and white as their church has led them to believe. Very few of these actually lose their faith (1%). Others go into a 'reflective exile' phase where they retract inwards and begin questioning all of their beliefs. They might still attend the church, but will withdraw and sit and at the back.
Sometimes these people will come a point where they begin to build up again the faith that they ripped down, but on their own terms. These people are termed 'transitional explorers' and they begin to engage and meet again with other followers, perhaps in a setting like SofaChurch. A few people in this category drift into new age beliefs or become agnostic.
The stage after that is termed 'integrated wayfarers'. These people have rebuilt their faith completely and can confidently consider all manners of spirituality and decide whether or not to engage with it. The fear of not conforming has gone away for them.
Mapped below these categories is a representation of the different stages of faith that people can progress.
2 - literalist - has very fixed and simplistic views of God.
3 - loyalist - feels very strongly attached to the church family and accepts all of its teachings wholesale, and will defend them uncritically
4 - critic - examining the assumptions and theology that they have received critically
5 - seer - able to draw on different traditions and faiths to build up an integrated belief structure
6 - saint - has completely resigned all self interest and dedicated themselves to serving others (very rare - think Mother Teresa/MLK)
Typically, evangelical churches cater for people in the 2 and 3 stage and are poor at supporting people in stage 4.
SofaChurch perhaps caters best to people who are in stages 4+ who are keen to engage with questions. What can we do to better support people who are reflective exiles or transitional explorers who haven't yet found us?
I would suggest attendance at Body Mind Spirit fairs and such like to garner more interest. Those are the spiritual marketplaces like Acts where p*ssed off ex Christians go to synthesize their beliefs, where you can (not always) get strong identification with church / belief grievances, and reach out to many with a similar journey - who on finding that the church service (a complete misnomer - dis-service is more appropriate) and church life leaves a BIG whole in their life go in quest of that something extra which the church seems unable to provide.
Revd Philip Goggin (his church websiteHERE)is doing this on a solo basis locally, and having gone to a few fairs in the last decade as a punter, and exhibited at one in America last month, I observe spiritual hunger and enquiry with 'seeking' struggling or 'ex' Christians are alive and well.
Paul went to the spiritual marketplaces. Something most Christians seem afraid to do - but it's blindingly obvious.
Great idea, Tim. I know in churches I've been in in the past, they would have been horrified at the idea of any of their members attending anything even vaguely new-agey. It's rather strange to be so afraid, when we're supposed to be convinced that our God is the biggest, isn't it?
you got it Suse. The faith of most is a complete misnomer in this respect. The big bad world is besieging us, the devil (or whatever power works for ill) is bigger, better armed and everywhere. Better hide with God inside our buildings a few times a week.
Wise Jesus say "naughty words". He say "Ever heard of Omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent?".
Summary part 2
Here are some of the things we discussed in the evening.
We thought about the different groups of church leaver and how we could support them.
Disillusioned followers:
We can perhaps provide a temporary place to refresh, even if the theology is not necessarily shared.
Reflective exiles:
By nature, they have chosen to be alone and will probably not want to come to SC. We should not want to or try to hurry up their reflecting process. However, can we provide online resources to help their journey?
The blog...
Unhelpful linear structure
Cannot see comments unless you have left one yourself/are an admin
Perhaps useful to keep for insider talk and start another dedicated forum for discussion of general theological questions that are relevant to reflective exiles?
Should we relaunch the Facebook group?
Production of the SofaChurch 'tract' - Andy needs to finish it and pass it around for criticism.
Transitional explorers:
These are the people who would tend to slot well into SofaChurch
SofaChurch is a well kept secret
Should we advertise more so that people out there who would probably like to be involved know about us?
Word of mouth is probably the best form of advertising
People would perhaps build up to the idea of coming to SofaChurch gradually
Is there scope in advertising to MMU students?
Should we have the equivalent of a open day, or a well advertised visitor friendly meeting? We could possibly advertise this in churches if it was clear that we weren't intending to poach people from the congregations.
We discussed the pros and cons of starting an omega course for people who are questioning their faith. Generally wasn't thought to be a good idea - too academic, relies on commitment to a group etc.
There is much more to flesh out and discuss...
Finding God in the mundane - THIS STORY seems to capture something of the spirit!
Food for thought: To be disillusioned you must first be suffering from an illusion.
Not sure if I'll be there tonight (17th Sept); really interested in the subject matter but new book deadline, tours work, and sorting out personal life is taking up a lot of my time and I'm feeling the pressure. Expect me if you see me!
Hi,I may not have been to the recent meetings but I am checking in on here and finding it useful and helpful.Aplogies, I won't be with you tonight as I have a headache and probably wouldn't concentrate very well.Chocs x
Apologies for my delay in posting a comment. It unleashed a whole torrent of thoughts and ponderings that writing something brief has actually been quite tricky…. So sorry!
PART ONE :O)
“Churchless Faith” reminds me of a similar book “Gone but not forgotten” (based on a survey in England some 10 years ago) whose conclusions were almost identical as to the reasons for the high number leaving ‘conventional church’ – numbers that are now much larger than those actually joining!
As Susie commented on previous SofaChurch post a while back, it saddens me greatly that many committed churchgoers often have misconceptions as to the reasons for leaving. Their focus seems to centre on ensuring that they have sufficiently large enough congregations to support the financial implications of maintaining buildings and employing staff etc. It breaks my heart that often they view ‘leaving’ as a form of betrayal to all that they have invested in an individual’s life over the years and that these same folk have seemingly abandoned their faith and rejected them too. There seems little appreciation that often these individuals are simply embarking on the next stage of their particular ‘faith journey’, not that dissimilar to our kids eventually leaving home as they progress into adulthood. We so easily get locked into thinking that the Christian life is meant to follow a specific course when, in reality, God often leads us by very different paths!
I can’t help but be drawn to the parable of the Prodigal Son, the story Jesus told of a child leaving and then returning to his father. Think it presents a wonderful analogy too of individuals leaving ‘conventional church’. Here I am not implying that the leaver always goes off to lavishly exploit all they have ‘inherited’ from being part of the Church Family BTW!! But I always wonder if Jesus left this parable deliberately vague to enable us to ‘fill in the gaps’. For example, we are given little idea as to how ‘family life’ was to this son before he left and whether it had changed on his return. Maybe his father had been brilliant but that the son had felt stifled or restricted in some way. Maybe there had been relationship breakdown, sibling rivalry or something. Or maybe the son was simply impatient to ‘go it alone’ and to ‘spread his wings’. Whatever, there were clearly very good reasons for him to eventually pluck up the courage and eventually leave. This begs the question as to whether the church family should expect to have ‘leavers’ as a normal part of family life, just like there are many families out there desperately waiting for and indeed looking for a ‘lost’ child or family member. Is it also possible for churches to actually ‘create’ prodigals? Interesting thoughts.
PART TWO :O)
As “Churchless Faith” and “Gone but not forgotten” imply, there are various reasons why folk leave: some lose faith, become disillusioned or feel let down in some way; some, due to changing personal circumstances, find it difficult to attend or simply move away. Whatever ALL find it extremely difficult to return and some are often painfully ostracised by the ‘church family’ because they don’t go anymore. I think it is very interesting that in the parable when the son hits rock bottom he considers returning as one of his father’s workers – maybe he wants to pay back his father’s generosity or to prove himself as trustworthy, hardworking etc. I don’t know, but as a ‘church leaver’ myself for over 12 years, I have often felt that I could only return as a worker, as the lowest of the low: “give me something to do and I’ll try to make up for being away for so long”. Ridiculous really as through leaving ‘conventional church’ God has been more able to teach me a whole load of stuff that I would never have been exposed to otherwise.
But it is the actual ‘return’ of the son that completely warms my heart and poses a challenge too. Just as so many families of missing children across our world endure the excruciating pain and trauma as they search and patiently await news, so we can imagine the father waiting and searching the horizon for his son. Maybe his porch light was on all night, a candle at the window as a sign of expectancy. Maybe it was not just the son who had learnt much while he had been away… maybe the father too had changed. Whatever, the father’s exuberant, lavish response and welcome is completely overwhelming. Are we too enduring pain and heartache at the thought of our own prodigals? Are we searching for them diligently, awaiting news of their return? Will we welcome them back with the same warmth, thankfulness and joy? Think we need to pray earnestly too that returners are greeted like this rather than being met by the ‘older brother’ first!!
For many folk who leave ‘conventional church’ there are genuine reasons as to why they did so. Some of them may not want to return, although most probably do, if either their circumstances change or ‘church’ is more suited to their needs. But the fact still remains than many ‘leavers’ are so traumatised by either their reasons for leaving or their experiences once they left that returning is actually an extremely difficult and even painful proposition. All too often they are questioned even interrogated, with folk passing ‘judgment’ on what has actually happened to them. At worst they are treated with suspicion or else ‘minded’ and given plenty to do! What a contrast to this father in the parable: he didn’t ask questions, pass judgment or scream and shout, just embraced him, lavished gifts and threw a party!
Note too the other parables in this ‘set’: the lost coin and lost sheep – the commitment to look and to persevere with the search. It warms my heart so very much that folk at SofaChurch are keen to searching for these ‘lost one’ out there… as many of us have been ‘lost’ ourselves or maybe still are! We have already tried ‘fishing’ through cafechurch, but it appears that we had our ‘net’ on the wrong side of the boat, the fish had moved, or we’re simply using the wrong technique even ‘bait’! Whatever, there is much for us to think through, pray and consider – exciting times!
But let us also hope and pray that for SofaChurch, the ‘porch light’ is still on, shining out to our prodigals as a sign of our genuine love, warmth and exuberant joy as we welcome them home again. For some will be tired, weary and starved, scared and scarred maybe, but certainly apprehensive, yet having learnt so much too. May we, like the father in the parable, embrace them in love, eager to put them at ease and to lavish on them much celebration.
Fabulous.
I agree with you, Jo, that it's the Father's role we need to be looking at. He didn't just shrug his shoulders and say, "Ah well, that son couldn't have been that committed to our family in the first place." No, he's running with outstretched arms.
My experience of leaving churches has been that no one has really noticed - which doesn't make you feel too good!
I'd like to add two thoughts to the discussion at this stage: do people in SofaChurch need to be missed more when they don't come for a long time? And how are we responding to the prodigals within the group - those who are searching well outside of the accepted Christian box? Are we as accepting as the Father when the son is our younger brother or sister?
I always used to hate that story as, being a good Christian girl, I really sympathised with the older brother. Then I took what I call my 'year out', during which I put ticks next to as many sins as I could think of. It was only when returning to God at that point did I start to understand what grace was about and boy, was I grateful.
Perhaps we all need to do the younger brother thing at some point. Maybe the older brothers in the church need to stick around and wait for us to get the message that what we're looking for isn't out there at all. And maybe they can be doing the open-armed bit even while we're younger-brothering it about.
I completely agree Suse.
Think we often forget how gracious our Heavenly Father is with us, welcoming us back and showering us with His abundant, extravagant love and grace, and such should be our own response to others. After all, we don’t necessarily have had to leave the nest to be a ‘prodigal’…. always wonder if the older brother was a bit ‘lost’ himself even though he’d stayed at home!
Agree too that so often the ‘grass isn’t always greener on the other side of the fence’; that what we’re actually looking for isn’t ‘out there’ at all. It’s like Tim hinted at earlier: we’re disillusioned with an ‘illusion’ - we expect the church to live up to a particular set of ‘expectations’ and, when those are not met, some of us leave hoping to find what we’re looking for somewhere else. We’re thirsty and hungry, desperately searching for something to satisfy that deep longing within our soul. Oooooo another exciting topic… don’t get me started! ;0)
Interesting that you mention how we should best respond to not seeing/hearing/having contact with SofaChurch folk for a while. Like you, when we started to drift away from attending ‘conventional church’ we were quite sad that no one actually enquired as to where we were. Once we stopped going entirely we were quite shocked to discover that it was assumed that we’d moved away! In “Gone but not forgotten” they discuss the issue of following-up leavers and the survey very much suggested that if churches had actually made some form of positive contact many would not have left! The book also states that often churches actually feel quite nervous of following up folk: frightened that they may be told something they don’t actually want to hear. However, if ‘leavers’ were given an opportunity to ‘de-brief’ before moving on, then the door is potentially left open for them to return more easily.
Think it is quite difficult with SofaChurch though. Its very nature means that folk can interact at different levels and this will be reflected not only in their commitment but how often they attend too. Suppose it all boils down to building up relationships with people, learning how they want to be supported and encouraged as often individuals have different ‘needs’. Just like a family, some members may need to see each other all the time, others once a week, some only at Christmas (!!) and others only very rarely. But nothing changes: they’re still part of the same family. The most important thing is that each member knows that they are loved unconditionally, wherever they are and whatever they do. As the SofaChurch motto goes: “Its Ok, you’re with family!”
And isn't that what we all want? To be loved and accepted no matter what decisions we might make in our lives.
I'm steeling myself for rejection at the moment. I've joined a lovely all-girl housegroup at our new church and it's all going really well.
But I've not yet revealed my rather liberal views on all things Christian. I will let on at some point that I don't read my Bible, that I think being a gay Christian is perfectly acceptable, that I hate the idea of quiet times, dislike most worship songs and church services and am almost entirely anti-evangelism.
At the moment they really like me, and I want to enjoy being acceptable just a bit longer! ;o)
I love that SofaChurch has become a group for people who don't necessarily hold mainstream views. It's a challenge too - is there anyone who lived such a life that they would be unwelcome at our meetings?
And the challenge too, to accept people where they are. And to sheepishly bring those deep, dark secrets out and find yourself STILL accepted is just wonderful. To have people accept your views and feelings and leave any questioning of them to God. It's so good.
Perhaps I'll be surprised; perhaps folk will be okay with my views. But I rather doubt that any sort of role will be given me once they work out that I'm a bit of a boat-rocker!
Sorry to really disagree... but I think we might be confusing an interpretation of the parable of the lost son, and what Jamieson concludes in his book...
The whole point is that the picture from the parable is of God the Father welcoming his son back into the Kingdom not the Church! Church does not equal kingdom of God!...
The whole point of Jamieson's conclusions is that people leave inherited church and then find their own expressions of faith OUTSIDE of the church - not come back like the prodigal son...
3 views of the church might help:
Please forgive the blunt & over-simplistic language - but it makes the point easier to follow
1) 'We' (the Church) are on one side of the bridge, and 'them' (the heathen) are on the other side. Our job is to send out a call to those on the other side of the bridge, invite them over because life on our side is much better (and as 'they' cross the bridge they are converted). This was the predominant 'inherited' model of church in post-Constantine Christianity. It is still very much around!...
2) 'We' (the Church) are on one side of the bridge, and 'them' (the heathen) are on the other side. Our job is to actually venture out onto the other side of the bridge, live among them, and then bring them back to our side of the bridge. Similar to (2) but at least we try & live among them for a bit
3) We leave our side of the bridge and go and live permanently on their side of the bridge. We try to create Christian community amongst them, with no intention of them coming back over - simply to work out expressions of faith within their culture.
View 3 is what Jamieson speaks about - and unlike the parable of the prodigal son, there is no intention of coming back/returning...
Another way of seeing this is when Jesus returns... Many people have the view that 'the saved' will 'go to heaven'... Yet Revelation speaks of a 'new heaven AND a NEW EARTH'... So again God re-creates with what he has, not leaving one thing to move to another...
Personally speaking, I have no interest in 'bringing people back into church' though I accept that is a valid expression of the Kingdom of God & Body of Christ... I'd rather be among the mess & work out an expression of faith on the other side of the bridge... Partly coz I believe in an incarnational Christ (& therefore if we're his body that seems a good place to start)
For what it's worth I'd humbly suggest we shouldn't confuse church with kingdom... and we are always part of the body of Christ whether or not we're in church...
Eek, apologies Geoff. Haven't actually read Jamieson's book yet. My references to the Prodigal Son parable were therefore purely coincidental, as I hadn't realised that it was referred to in his book too. Infact this particular 'spin' was simply one that I've been mulling over in recent weeks, based on Rob Parson's book "Return of the Prodigals" and also a sermon I heard recently... just thought I'd share it... sorry if it caused offence.
Personally, think that Jesus' parables are open to all sorts of different interpretations... but in essence think we both agree: God loves us totally, completely and extragantly and we should strive to love and accept others in a similar way. Such love is a sign of His Kingdom and so this interpretation is not that dissimilar at all to what you have stated. Maybe I should have used an alternative 'analogy' to explore the different issues involved, notably the need to accept each unique spiritual journey and to offer plenty of love, support and encouragement along the way. Sorry.
In fact I wholeheartedly agree with all that you have written and, like you, align myself to View 3 rather than the other perspectives.
My fascination at the moment is how to best to make contact/respond to/ develop relationships with folk who have found themselves 'outside' the Christian community, for whatever reason... how they are likely to be feeling concerning their experiences and the reactions of others aswell. Think I was also seeking to explore our own experiences too: the process of leaving, why we did it, how we felt and were treated, what it was like 'outside', how it has felt 'returning', whether we actually want to stay and what, at the end of day, do we really need!!!
Sigh... think I'll sign off now and go to bed. zzzzzzzzz
My take on this is that there are two different movements here - one positive and one negative.
Some people theologically 'outgrow' the church they have been part of, for example when they begin to question simplistic black-and-white statements. These people often move away from the church and develop a 'churchless faith'. Often the people they leave behind in the church, who are immersed in an evangelical worldview, view them as 'backsliders' or 'prodigals' where in fact they view their transition as a positive development. For them to go back to the church would be a backwards step in their journey of faith.
SofaChurch could potentially aid these people in their journey of rebuilding a faith without the framework of a proscriptive church that tells them what to believe.
Other people are better described as prodigals; people who decide to turn their back on Jesus. These people want to experience life away from God for various reasons. Some may well see a little later on their life has now become less rich and decide to return to the kingdom. Like God, we should run to welcome them. Although this phase of their journey can be described as a negative one, in the long run it may well help to strengthen their faith or be something they have to go through to help them to properly appreciate life in the kingdom.
SofaChurch people can potentially be alongside them in their exile and show them the way back home - back to the kingdom not necessarily to their original church.
Aww thanks Andy, that’s an excellent summary… so much better than my stumbling wonderings late last night.
Been so thinking about this particular parable in the light of our own experiences and how they have been viewed by others. I have lost count of the number of times we have been referred to as ‘prodigals’ and as folk who are ‘lost’ and backslidden. And sadly, all too often we’ve been traumatised by the reactions of ‘elder brothers’. But the fact remains, we have never actually felt particularly ‘lost’ at all and certainly our relationship with God was, in reflection, a lot richer during lengthy periods when we weren’t attending ‘conventional church’. Afterall, nothing can snatch us out of God’s hands and there is no where that we can go to escape from His overwhelming love and care… although we may not always realise or appreciate it at the time!
Just think that this is a ‘family’ parable: with the Father being God himself and we his children. Whether we are living at ‘home’ or in the ‘outside world’ nothing stops us from being his children and experiencing His extragant, all-encompassing love for each one of us: wherever we are in life, whatever our experiences, whether we’re residents, ‘just visiting’ or permanently away! Incidentally, I’ve always wondered if the younger son actually stayed or eventually moved on again. But it’s the reaction of the older brother that has always fascinated me: was he jealous, did he feel cheated somehow, disappointed that his dedication/commitment hadn’t been recognised… the list goes on!!!
Actually the word ‘prodigal’ is an extremely interesting term. Definitions state wasteful of one’s means, squandering but also lavishness, extravagance, profusion, great liberality. Does this refer to the younger son’s behaviour once he left the family or of the father’s treatment of him? TBH am increasingly thinking that it’s actually talking about the father’s response, both at the son’s initial request to leave and also his return. Which therefore begs the question: which son is the richer – the younger one, who went away and then returned, or the one who stayed? Of course they are both ‘rich’ for they both have the father’s love…. But do they really appreciate it or know it, I wonder?!
I’m sorry, but I do think that as parable concerning the Kingdom of God, it is still a useful analogy to explain God’s ‘father’ relationship with us and also the possible responses of other family members.
Ultimately as parents our children eventually have to leave home and live independent lives from us. This doesn’t ever not stop them being our children or our overwhelming love for them, there will also always be a place here in our home for them if things don’t work out or they need a ‘stopping off place’ for a bit.
But does this ‘spiritual home’ HAVE to mean ‘church’? Increasingly thinking that for many, and me included, it doesn’t mean this at all. Our ‘spiritual home’ is simply our acceptance of our relationship as ‘sons’ to our Heavenly Father. Accepting this and living by it are all that is required and, as such, we are enabled to live within the world as ‘salt’ and ‘light’ without compromise and maintaining our integrity in Him. Not to say that this isn’t a challenge, cos it sure helps having folk around who share in the struggles and joys too!
Eek.. by now you'll have probably worked out that according to Jamieson I'm probably a 'critic' and teetering between being a 'reflective exile' and 'transitional explorer' according to my mood. ;0) So do I think a 'churchless faith' can work? Definitely!!!
Ooo Suse, think its great that you're going along to a ladies housegroup at your new church... very brave and you haven't even moved yet! :0) Do hope and pray that your fears won't be realised and that they will accept you and where you are on your own particular 'journey' with God in all love. We certainly do and think you're a real treasure. Big hugs xx
I totally agree, Jo. And it maybe boils down to what we get out of attending a church meeting.
We've just joined a new church near to our new house. We did question whether we felt the need to attend church at all, but decided in the end that it was worthwhile for these reasons: I can rarely make SC, Kitty will enjoy it, we can perhaps contribute, and it's a good way to meet your neighbours.
But as lively and exciting as the church services seem to be, I don't think they will be important in 'spiritual recharge' sort of way.
Like Jo, I dislike ideas of people backsliding or being lost. If God's out there pursuing us, like the shepherd going after that one sheep, then he's with us on the journey, wherever we go.
Maybe the choices we make break his heart or prevent him from blessing us as he'd like to, but I know from experience that he doesn't go away. He's that stray cat who won't get out from under your feet. (Which can be annoying when you're actively trying to get away from him!)
What do folk think about the amount of contact with fellow travelers that is necessary/beneficial in the Christian walk? Is it true that 'the banana that left the bunch got skinned?' ;o)
Hey, posted at the same time! Thanks so much, Jo - this groups' ongoing acceptance is appreciated more than you know.
Post a Comment