Marriage #3: Same-sex marriage

I'd like to come out (as it were..!) and try to present a case for marriage being extended to same-sex relationships... I've been a little saddened by some of the writings coming out trying to lobby the government not to change the law on marriage, and some old and rather tired stereotyping and rejecting of people trying to live a difficult yet honest walk between their faith (usually a choice) and their sexuality (usually not a choice)

I strongly believe that the basis for marriage from a Christian perspective is around the CHARACTERISTICS of such relationships i.e. commitment, fidelity, lasting relationships rather than the NATURE of such relationships...

Jesus was famously completely silent on the subject of same-sex relationships, and yet quite condemning of divorce... This would suggest he was far more concerned with the characteristics of relationships than their nature... It's not like he was silent about relationships in general!!

The Bible gives many examples of marriage being encouraged with which we would have problems from a Christian perspective today... Practices such as polygamy (Exodus 21:10-11), men being required to marry their dead brother's wife (Deut 25:5-6; Gen 38:8) and even worse, a master being able to buy wives for his slaves and then keeping the wives and children produced for himself when the slaves were set free (Exodus 21:2-4).

We would accept that all of these practices (not exactly supportive of one man, one woman for life) are not reflective of a Christian view of marriage today... And yet the few passages which seem to condemn same sex relationships some still believe do apply today... Where is the consistency between what we decide is for all time about marriage, and what we decide was 'of that time'? To differentiate between such passages is at best arbitrary, at worst picking and choosing passages to bolster our own prejudices.

One of the biggest (and most inconsistent) arguments is that intimate relationships must have the possibility of procreation (which clearly same-sex relationships do not)... But yet there is no condemnation of couples who are infertile (and therefore sex can never lead to procreation) or sterile (same) or past the age of childbirth, where sex seems to be perfectly permissible. This suggests that sex is for more than simple procreation, and that applying this 'rule' to some relationships and not others is not just inconsistent, it's contradictory.

I would like to see a debate centred around what makes marriages and relationships healthy ones, and what part Christian marriage plays in this, supporting characteristics of commitment and fidelity, rather than discriminating between the nature that those relationships take.

I actually think the Church would contribute much more to the debate by focussing on these things, and by creating a Christian basis for all marriages, whether man-woman or same sex, than being distracted by arguments which at the end of the day ignore both some of the actual key issues, and are on somewhat shaky ground on the issues they do see as incontrovertible.

Geoff

Marriage #2: What did Jesus say?

Recently there's been a lot in the media about Christians defending marriage. But what did Jesus have to say? And what does the Bible actually say?


Unfortunately it seems that Jesus really said very little, and when he did, he wasn’t always enthusiastically positive… And as for a consistent view of marriage, the Bible isn’t exactly clear. Many Christians like to back up their own views and prejudices with what they think Jesus said… or what they think the Bible says. And often they turn to verses that don’t even relate to marriage… Paul’s letter to the Corinithians chapter 13 is often read at weddings – ‘’Love is patient, love is kind’ etc… But he wasn’t referring to personal relationships… he was helping to resolve a conflict within the church to whom he was writing!

Not only did Jesus choose not to marry, he encouraged his followers to leave household and domestic concerns in order to follow him (Mark 10:28-30). He even refers to those "who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 19:10-13). Whatever that means, it's certainly not an endorsement of marriage.

And in Matthew chapter 22, he says that in the age to come, ‘people will neither marry nor be given in marriage’… If the age to come is the perfection of  a new heaven and earth, then this perfect world doesn’t seem to include marriage…

His only real directive was to tell people that were already married ideally not to divorce (Matthew 19:4-9) – hardly encouraging a rush for people to get married.

Paul says that marriage can be a hindrance and that it’s better not to marry (1 Corinthians 7:27) - advice Paul took for himself, by all accounts never being married.

If neither Jesus nor Paul preferred marriage for their followers, why do some Christians maintain that the Bible enshrines 19th-century Victorian family values? Are all of our positive views of marriage based on what Jesus and the Bible actually say, or on a Hollywood romanticized view of love? Maybe it’s time to take another look…

Agora

Enjoyed watching this film tonight - really good discussion afterwards... Some key themes were:
How far does historical accuracy matter in a piece of art (e.g. film)?... Apparently the film has a lot of historical inaccuracies
Negative portrayal of Christianity (and to some extent all religion)
Relationship/conflict between science and religion
Is rational enlightenment a good thing?
Please do comment here & continue the debate
Geoff

Marriage #1: The cost?

Here's a stat: 89% of 13-15s in a recent survey said they would like to get married one day. With the average cost of a wedding now over £20,000 the question is why would anyone want to get married? Has it become more about the ceremony and image than the actual substance?

Working for Relate, I find often people are reluctant to pay towards either counselling when their relationship has hit the rocks, or up front for courses about 'how to have a good relationship'... How are people reluctant to pay less than £500 for these, and yet several thousand on one day?


With celebrity marriages covered extensively in the media, have we become a society focussed on the glitz and glamour, at the expense (literally) of the substance of marriage?

Marriage - what is it?

Tonight at God@theDOG we'll be discussing marriage... Is it still relevant today? Is it always one man, one woman for life? What did Jesus say about it? And what does history have to say about the purpose and ceremony of marriage? And what's all the fuss about same-sex marriage?
If you're unable to join us in person, join in the debate here... We'll be posting some highlights from our discussion online in the next day or so
Geoff