Hi everyone - I'd like some opinions on a couple of ideas if you have a minute to respond.I've noticed that numbers have been very low for the two recent discussion evenings - space and the god particle. I have come up with three possible reasons. One - people have just been busy. Two - the topics have not been interesting enough. Three - the whole idea of having a discussion evening isn't very appealing. Now, the answer probably lies somewhere between all three of these. There isn't much we can do about the first, but as for the others... We could look at whether we change the discussion evening on the third Thursday of the month for something else - alt worship perhaps. We do discuss ideas on other evenings after all. Anyway, I'd like to hear what would suit you all better.
Second idea - I came up with this as a possible tagline for our advertising... SofaChurch - physically comfortable, spiritually challenging. What do you think? Twee? Unneccesary? Descriptive? Misleading? World changing?
Thank you, hope to see you all soon.
27 comments:
Hi Andy - I'll pop a reply on tonight or tomorrow; may I suggest you mail out to regular attenders, as I think relatively few visit this blog regularly and even fewer know how to leave comments.
Hi all,
Well as you know, busy life, kids etc does prevent me from attending Sofa Church, however, I am a regular visitor to the site. If I was able to come I have to say that I would not be comfortable with the discussion group nights. I feel ok with things like that with probably one or two folk, but any more and it puts me off.
I do however, love the many different ways you do Sofa Church. You seem to cater for most styles and tastes.
I think it's definitely good to ask the question, as SofaChurch's content should be aiming to 'scratch where folk itch' as it were. If people just stop coming without saying why, it's harder to make the right changes.
It's always going to be a bit tricky though, as some will enjoy the arty stuff while others will prefer the films, for example.
I always (perhaps rather selfishly?) most enjoyed the evenings where I came home feeling somehow understood and not alone. Perhaps the ones where I was made to think, but also where I felt people were interested in what I had to say.
I think making sure everyone has a chance to speak out is important, as some aren't as comfortable in groups as others are. (Perhaps like you, Mandy)
I've also been wondering for a while if there needs to be a stronger 'pastoral' element to SofaChurch. What do people think? Should it be the kind of group where if you don't go for a few weeks, someone gets in touch to check all's okay?
A bit off-topic, I thought I'd drop in here, that I've been wondering if there might be any mileage in a regular daytime get-together for those of us who have a bit of free-time during the day or work part-time.
Just the seeds of an idea at the moment, but I'd be interested to hear folks' initial reactions to the idea of some sort of SofaChurch 'Daytime'... Perhaps a chance to pray for each other, do a short Bible study maybe? Obviously all when Kitty's a bit older (and with plenty of toys to amuse!)
Pastoral Care...
Good question. Striking a balance between being nosey or appearing completely unbothered or heavy sheperding will be difficult.
Sometimes pastoral care can seem almost voyeuristic; other times it just isn't done, and on others it's so controlling as to be damaging and prohibitive.
Daytime...
I'm sick of church life where you have the once a week time on Sunday morning (or whenever!) before going your ways for the week, and that constitutes 'church'.
While I feel that Jesus is good news, church life is not good news on the whole. I feel perilously / tantalisingly close to wanting to throw the bathwater out with the baby.
Hi everybody,
I tend to find myself very withdrawn at the discussion evenings and even if I find the topic interesting I also find myself wishing I could speak up and talk with the group more easily.
When it comes to the creative evenings and film nights I feel I can relax and come out of my shell a bit more.That's where I am personally at the moment.
Still glad of sofa church because it is different to sunday church and explores varying aspects of how we can be Christians in fellowship and
community together.
I also think the idea of a daytime meet up is positive and we should look into this definately.
What made me think of the pastoral question was that often on a Thursday night, Andy'll come home and I'll ask how the evening's gone, who was there etc and it's only in chatting that we'll realise that (whoever) hasn't been for weeks.
I just wondered if it was a bit rubbish that members of a group of (we hope) friends, can be absent for a few weeks but no one really worries about it. I wasn't thinking that we should be nosey or make people feel uncomfortable if they just don't want to come anymore.
Re: Daytime
I didn't want to call it SofaChurch Girls, (and exclude you Tim!) but I was wondering if there wasn't a need for a place where some of us shyer girls can get together, be a bit honest about where we're at, how we're doing, perhaps support each other more. I know it can be hard to speak up in big meetings. I don't mind shouting over Andy 'cos he's (well) used to it, but I know not everyone else feels that comfortable.
But maybe this kind of thing is something we can do outside of SofaChurch just by meeting up for coffee etc.
But this is off-topic. Sorry And. What was your original question? Ah yes: Are you boring everyone?
Discussion Evenings:
Personally I love them, even if my mind can't fit around the subject matter as per last week's - but I'll have a stab and enjoy doing it.
Having done a degree in theology, I miss the intellectual discussions and the going very deep debates.
Nothing quite prepares you for the mental banality of normal church life compared to using your brain to think about faith and related issues. I hope that doesn't sound snobbish. If you were used to being in a music group at church for years and then suddenly you had a church where there was no music (!), you would miss the music side.
As for tag line - I reckon it will be all those things to different people. Helps define a bit of what SofaChurch is - but with a marketing tagline it will appeal to some, and to others, not.
being "a bit honest about where we're at, how we're doing".
It's not just the shyer girls that feel this.
Just because I am quick to discuss or volunteer information, it does not mean I am OK. Or anyone else for that matter, I guess.
There's not one person in any of my faith circles who knows what's gone on in my life personally this year, hurts I have, things I consider doing, issues I face. Church = alone. Church = not being able to be real.
I come back to the conclusion that church, even 'alternative church', is bound to fail in giving a sense of community and safe haven. Noble and commendable aspirations, but the reality of things is different.
"It's not a cry you can hear at night, it's not somebody who's seen the light - it's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah".
A firm handshake, a smile, and "fine thankyou" says it all. :o)
I love the idea of more pastoral care. Not to be nosey or controlling or presurising, but just simply to care about each other.
It could be that folk were ill or had family problems and the group didn't know just because we hadn't asked "hey is everything ok? haven't seen you for a while"
Just a card for instance when someone is ill or down can make all the difference I think. But how will we know unless contact is made if someone is missing for a few weeks?
So what do we do about it, Tim? Shouldn't we work towards the ideal of church being a place where we're able to be real with each other?
I don't know how this kind of thing works in a big group, especially when a proportion of the members are either uncomfortable with speaking out or uncomfortable with emotional stuff.
Do you think a smaller daytime group could work in that way? Perhaps we should be thinking (*jokes*) SofaChurch Sentimental? A meeting where people go along knowing it will be an honest, sharing time.
I'm glad you like the pastoral care idea Mand. The trouble is, (Tim has a point) that it might look like checking up on people: "Why aren't you coming to our fabulous group anymore??"
So what do we do about it, Tim? Shouldn't we work towards the ideal of church being a place where we're able to be real with each other?
I really don't know, Suse, I really don't.
I'm inclined towards a fatalistic attitude that this is as good as it gets, so don't get your hopes up as the realities and practicalities of life just won't go with it.
As with much of life, the options are few, the realities disappointing and bittersweet.
The choice for church and life seems to be accept the way things are or opt out - neither of which is attractive, but at times the balance hangs in one direction or the other.
Been thinking about you, Tim. Do you think that if we feel that church isn't a a place where we can be real, we need to make a change? Drop the mask, maybe, or when someone asks how you are, tell them, warts and all?
Having suffered from depression in the past (and been to several churches where non-happy people are not very well tolerated) I feel strongly that church ought to be the place we can be real and get support. We're supposed to be a family and if that's not happening, there's something wrong.
I know Andy's not into the touchy feely stuff (I think it comes from his being part Vulcan) but if SofaChurch needs a different emphasis (if only occasionally) then perhaps we need to think about how to make a space for people to be more real when things aren't great.
Having read the rest of the discussion I'm finding it incredibly difficult to find any words at all without bursting into tears, to be honest.
(There. That's me being real. *mops up tears and pulls self together*)
I find that the busyness of some Thursdays makes it harder to get to sofachurch every week - and certainly I try harder to get to the meetings I think I will enjoy and have something to contribute to - and the discussion evenings are probably at the bottom of my priority list. The reality of my life on a daily basis is very much practical theology rather than talking about things which really feel rather abstract to me.
But I do appreciate that there are those (like Tim, for example) who thrive on the deeper discussions and can't do without them without feeling the lack. So I would not suggest getting rid of the discussion evening slots; but maybe just accept that there will be different people along to different types of sessions, depending on what floats their boat.
Hope that makes sense, I'm feeling a bit wobbly today! Sorry.
Hi all. Been finding it really tricky getting to Sofa Church over the summer, largely due to other meetings and simply needing to spend time with the family! Really missing everyone to be honest!! Thank goodness for this website so I can keep in touch with what is going on.... ;o)
Hmm, yes I suppose the pastoral care stuff is all part 'n parcel of being 'church' although prefer to see it as simply encouraging and loving each other. It can be soooo difficult though... one needs to feel 'safe' inorder to be truly authentic and genuine in our relationships with each other and God. Think many of us have been 'hurt' by Christians in the past so find this honesty thing really difficult and scary. Its also pretty tricky creating a 'safe' environment too, as it can seem a bit contrived and what works for some people doesn't always work for others. Just wonder whether folk find it difficult to be honest, genuine and authentic simply because so many of us drift in and out of the group or only attend certain meetings... so, for example, you may make a connection or something with someone then not see them for weeks on end. When folk demonstrate committment to meet regularly together, friendships and therefore trust naturally evolve and deepen. Thing is with 'regular church', as soon as you demonstrate this committment to people, you inevitably end up with a 'job' to do and therefore endless organisational meetings to attend.... eek!! I for one just want to be free and safe to simply 'be' me.... to meet regularly with like-minded folk who similarly desire to be genuine and real about their relationship with God... full stop. No organisational meetings, no religeous 'clap trap', just to 'be'.
Oh, BTW, have always enjoyed the rich variety of sessions with sofachurch. Our lack of attendance has simply been due to buzy-ness no other reason really. :o)
I know you're right Jo. My busy life, kids stuff, mums taxi service and Steves' shifts prevent me from doing many things. Not complaining though - I feel blessed.
I also fully agree with you about just wanting to go to church and be you. Not getting too involved. I think it can take away so much from why we attend in the first place and yet jobs need doing and meetings need to be held, so I feel a bit mixed up about how I should feel on that one and have done for a long time
Suse.
1) I don't know what to think about church. I keep returning to the thought over many years that Christianity is great when it's one or two friends to another, but when something corporate comes together something goes disastrously wrong in a number of possible ways. I don't think it 'works'. I'm not sure if it's meant to or what. Am I looking for the perfect church I ask myself? Perhaps.
2)I don't really see myself as depressed. Yes, ups and down. I had a bad period of depression in 92/93. I will feel low and high or normal at the same time. That bittersweet oxymoronic mixture. A number of personal, family and life situations I feel will never be resolved are behind what once would have washed me in depressed meaningless lethargy, but is now an undergirding sense of diminishing choices in which the alternatives become progressively clearer.
Some things have happened this year which would make folk who know us dumbstruck.
So while I can be genuinely enthused and engaged about the things which interest me and which I love, there is a residual melancholy attitude.
Hi Jo - I thought you'd given up on SofaChurch! I asked you outright at the HOD event, and you completely ducked the question...
I can see that a lot of church institutions do go wrong (I've come across a few myself and have friends who run a help group for survivors of spiritual abuse, so know it's out there and going on) but I'd like to hope that SofaChurch isn't necessarily doomed to head that way.
I think it helps that, although he leads most evenings, Andy's not the sort to revel in being 'a leader.' He's just not that kind of bloke. He's more concerned about wanting to explore issues that excite him and do it to the best of his ability.
I'm really sorry to hear that we would be dumbstruck if we knew what had happened with you this year. :o(
I guess at the end of the day (sorry to be simplistic again, but that's me) the church is made up of messy, imperfect people who are going to mess up and let you down time and again. It is hard work trying to find a safe place to just be you and be accepted and loved.
But the ideal has got to be worth pursuing, hasn't it?
But the ideal has got to be worth pursuing, hasn't it?
I remain to be convinced! I'd begun to have hope but don't feel sure after this summer. Could go in to a long rambling post, but won't...!
Okay - won't press you, but if you feel you want to talk at any point, do feel free. Always happy to listen, even if (as the song goes) there are always more questions than answers.
I hope people feel able to voice any concerns they have about the direction/content/general feel of SofaChurch if they have any. It's such a new venture and so shaped by the people in it (that's what makes it so varied and interesting, I think) that we can make changes wherever we feel the need.
And a few years down the line, I hope we'll still be flexible enough as a group to switch direction if needed.
Hi Tim - my apologies if you thought I'd 'ducked' out at the HOD when you asked about why we haven't been at Sofachurch for a while. TBH we were having an absolutely dreadful weekend with stuff at home and my mind was seriously pre-occupied... sorry. Hope from my previous posts you now understand my reasons.
Have to say though that, like Tim, I contine to be pretty disillusioned with 'conventional' church. If it wasn't for the fact that I'm now pretty committed with stuff now, I'd probably give it all up entirely. I keep noticing that when Jesus walked this earth He spent alot of time simply going off on His own to be with His Father, to pray, read scripture and stuff, and then came back and ministered to 'the people'. Much, much prefer this model... spending time with God ready for more practical 'loving' stuff... no hymn singing, ritual and pews in sight!!!
What I love about sofachurch: meeting together with like-minded folk who simply love Jesus and want to know His reality in their lives every moment.... discussing issues, watching films, playing with playdough.... whatever, it all works for me... its real, authentic and often just good fun!
:o)
That's great to hear Jo! Andy's always maintained that the meetings themselves are worshipful, whatever the activity or discussion, because it's all done with an awareness of God's presence. I've always been much more keen than him on sung worship, praying out loud and even liturgy, so wondered if SofaChurch needed more conventional worship elements.
But it seems from most of these comments and the emails we've received privately that everyone's pretty happy with the meetings as they are, but just have busy, family and job-filled lives.
Andy said the other night that he was glad that people feel they can pick and choose which evenings they come to and that it does fit around people's busy lives like that, because busy 30-somethings are just the people SofaChurch is trying to serve.
Thanks for the email... Speaking personally, it's a combination of (1) and (3)... I am busy, and making every week would be hard, especially this term coz I'm doing a counselling course. So I have to make a choice each month about which evenings I miss... I love the film nights (especially seeing how mainstream films relate to spirituality), and I have loved both '1st of the month' series since I started coming - the modern-day prophets and Songs of Praise... Then I guess out of the other weeks, I like the 4th more as it is social and a great way of chatting to others and getting to know them... The week that is last on my list is discussion night, so it is that one I tend to miss...
I think this reflects the reasons why I feel at home at Sofa Church - (1) It is a good and pleasant (trying to avoid 'nice' lol!) group of people, and I wanted to make some friends having lost many of my local friends through a break-up, and preferably within a Christian context...
(2) Because one of my fundamental beliefs about God is he is everywhere and in everything (even films & contemporary songs & especially playdough!!). 'Missio Dei' is part of where I am coming from. By this I mean God is already at work and our job is to join in - we don't have some kind of special work that we need to take to the dark parts where God hasn't yet been otherwise God won't be there (I'm aware I will upset a lot of my former evangelical circles in saying this!!)... And I recognise this belief at the heart of Sofa Church...
And I think having those 2 reasons means that at the moment weeks 1,2, and 4 just fit more with where I'm at... But I still would struggle to make 4 weeks out of 4 anyway, so I'd usually make my choice based on which week I would miss the least if I didn't go (e.g. last week it enabled me to play squash with a friend that evening)
They're just my thoughts - I'd be interested to know what others think?
The tagline is both good and a bit cheesy, but I'll need my brain to wake up before I can get on to suggesting alternatives!!
Love to you all
Geoff
x
Post a Comment