In this week's SofaChurch we will hope to unravel the profound mysteries of faith contained in the absolute classic Children's programme, Pingu. For any Pingu purists, we will be using the original, unadulterated older series as our material.
Having identified the moral plots within the genius of the older series of Pingu (complete with examples of training in glossolalia), last night the group went into a huge tangent!
I hope I've caught the essence of what was discussed... please feel free to add as appropriate. I've stated some of it in extremes - feel free to haul it in if you feel I've over stated the polarities seen as typical choices facing a Christian faith community.
Keeping Christianity true to Christ in the face of 'wooliness', the inroads Political Correctness has made into more established denominations, the demands of looking after buildings, and the huge irrelevance of the typical ways of being / doing church which just do not bridge the gap in terms of faith to contemporary culture.
Several personal well meant rants about aspects of church, thrashing out of issues, with a firm resolution that we need to be passionately, singularly and completely devoted to Jesus whilst being who are in our lives - that is the way that will keep the heart of the faith centred.
By so doing we will not serve tradition or buildings for their own sakes, but ways of being, doing, and meeting together would serve the groups of Christians and Christ much better if we put Christ where he should be in our faith,
This should safeguard against the 1) either wishy washy faith that becomes spiritually castrated or 2) the almost christo-facist dogma which is intolerant of different opinions, beliefs and lifestyles.
Christ was neither woolly, nor offensive (only to religious experts) - and therein lies the person whose person and example we should model.
I think the group finished on a bit of a high with a 'so how do we do this?' feeling - and a realisation that we do it by being what we are already, and loving Jesus in that.
So, if that's anything to judge Pingu by - let the revolution begin with Pingu!
What did you think that it means to 'put Christ where he should be in our faith' ?
Erm erm... to make him (his example & teachings, and a prayer life*)the key frame of reference by which our lives and corporate Christian lives (ie 'the church') are played out.
I think.
Anyone else?
*(by which I don't mean hushed huddles in the shampoo position with lots of 'justs' and 'really' and 'really just' and 'just really' - but a frank conversational relationship - with times of deep sharing in one anothers' presence, but more likely just brief catches of chat as seems to be with most relationships of significance)
The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favour.
I love the way that Jesus set out his mission here. Not, however...
The spirit of the Lord God is upon me because he has anointed me to... be a nice person, attend Sunday morning services regularly, be involved in committees, have coffee mornings and arrange fetes.
The spirit of the Lord God is upon me because he has anointed me to... sing loudly, lose myself in worship, be slain in the spirit sometimes, buy CDs, be healed, be blessed, be rich, support Israeli occupation of Palestine.
Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'
But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
I like these words of Jesus; for him, recovery of sight for the blind seems to be more about the ability to see the spiritual dimensions to life; to really 'get' what Jesus was all about. Perhaps those of us who do have some vision, even if very faint, need to try draw people's attention to the spiritual in the world and where God is present. Paul's preaching on Mars hill seems very much along these lines, and something that we can strive to emulate ourselves.
This is something I think about quite a bit, to be honest.
I happily share space with a spectrum of heathens (sic), pagans, polytheists, wiccans, druids, new age channelers, spiritualists, atheists (antitheists), and agnostics (apatheists).
Interacting with people honestly buying in the spiritual marketplace as it were is an eye opener. There is a world of spiritual hunger where Christ has been struck off the menu for many courtesy of what 'Christians' have done in his name.
Jesus is out there working, people are looking for him, but not finding the full revelation of who he is because so many Christians would rather seek the company of their peer group to be slapped on the back and told things they want to believe - while others are grasping as close as they can to Jesus in these other spiritual avenues.
Have you come across 'Song for an Unknown God' by Eden Burning, Tim? Your last comment made me think of it. Here are some of the lyrics:
"So with runes and stones And shards of light and candled rooms And journeying souls Mystical tales And lasting scents, spirit's landscape In patterns of time
You're nearer to me than you'll ever know I'm closer to you than I'm allowed to show."
Well, it was actually after hearing Gordon speak at a Fresh Expressions day that we started thinking about SofaChurch. We put forward his name as a good person to speak at a Circuit service as he was so inspiring.
I was trying to put my finger on what makes people like him 'shine Jesus'. Not all Christians have whatever that quality is and I'm not sure it's something you can fake. Wonder if Helen agrees?
I think perhaps it's something to do with humility, vulnerability, openness... I guess a genuine searching to do what pleases God must come into it too?
Andy suggests we do a SofaChurch trip to Church Without Walls, to see how their set-up works.
I suspect they may be more sung-worshippy than SofaChurch is; certainly at the Fresh Expressions day, the musicians were from that church and were incredibly talented.
I don't mind sung worshippy stuff in small doses! I think come a little further into the year some earnest research and recces do need to be done if we're to apply this idea even further.
Excellent summary of the evening, Tim. Wow, 'church without walls' sounds great.... an opportunity to simply BE a community who love the Lord Jesus and want to experience His reality in all aspects of their lives, without all the 'trappings' of a traditional church set-up. Sounds very complimentary to the vision for the SofaChurch set up.
Its strange though that in my searching for something that is relevant and 'real', I'm beginning to realise that this actually starts with simply spending time alone with God everyday, reading my Bible and praying. (Afterall Jesus had to do it, so these times must be even more important for us.) Hmm doesn't sound very 'radical' though, in many ways it sounds quite boring... Ho hum... I clearly have a lot to learn!!! Was wanting to carry on exploring being true to Christ and not beeing 'woolly' on Thursday if thats ok. Thought it would be interesting to use 'art' and drawing to grapple with some of the issues further, keeping what is potentially a rather 'heavy' topic fun and relatively light-hearted. Had intended to spend the evening making Mother's Day cards, but exploring radical Christian living seems to be the order of the day!!!! What a challenge!!
Sorry, it's me again!! Just been thinking about the previous comments and wanted to throw in these verses: "... you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house..." 1 Peter 2:5 "The God who made the world and everything in it,is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands." Acts 17:24-25
I love the picture of people being Christ's church here on earth.. not buildings, particular philosophies or religeous practices but simply folk who are striving to let Jesus 'shine out' of their lives. So in that sense 'church' can be or go anywhere... no barriers, no walls. But how can we 'practically' do this... ensuring that we are always loving and non-judgemental, real and relevent too?
In this week's SofaChurch we will hope to unravel the profound mysteries of faith contained in the absolute classic Children's programme, Pingu. For any Pingu purists, we will be using the original, unadulterated older series as our material.
17 comments:
Let the revolution begin with Pingu!
Having identified the moral plots within the genius of the older series of Pingu (complete with examples of training in glossolalia), last night the group went into a huge tangent!
I hope I've caught the essence of what was discussed... please feel free to add as appropriate. I've stated some of it in extremes - feel free to haul it in if you feel I've over stated the polarities seen as typical choices facing a Christian faith community.
Keeping Christianity true to Christ in the face of 'wooliness', the inroads Political Correctness has made into more established denominations, the demands of looking after buildings, and the huge irrelevance of the typical ways of being / doing church which just do not bridge the gap in terms of faith to contemporary culture.
Several personal well meant rants about aspects of church, thrashing out of issues, with a firm resolution that we need to be passionately, singularly and completely devoted to Jesus whilst being who are in our lives - that is the way that will keep the heart of the faith centred.
By so doing we will not serve tradition or buildings for their own sakes, but ways of being, doing, and meeting together would serve the groups of Christians and Christ much better if we put Christ where he should be in our faith,
This should safeguard against the 1) either wishy washy faith that becomes spiritually castrated or 2) the almost christo-facist dogma which is intolerant of different opinions, beliefs and lifestyles.
Christ was neither woolly, nor offensive (only to religious experts) - and therein lies the person whose person and example we should model.
I think the group finished on a bit of a high with a 'so how do we do this?' feeling - and a realisation that we do it by being what we are already, and loving Jesus in that.
So, if that's anything to judge Pingu by - let the revolution begin with Pingu!
Look what happens when I miss SofaChurch for a week; you get all clever on me!
Sounds really interesting, wish I could have been there.
What did you think that it means to 'put Christ where he should be in our faith' ?
What did you think that it means to 'put Christ where he should be in our faith' ?
Erm erm... to make him (his example & teachings, and a prayer life*)the key frame of reference by which our lives and corporate Christian lives (ie 'the church') are played out.
I think.
Anyone else?
*(by which I don't mean hushed huddles in the shampoo position with lots of 'justs' and 'really' and 'really just' and 'just really' - but a frank conversational relationship - with times of deep sharing in one anothers' presence, but more likely just brief catches of chat as seems to be with most relationships of significance)
The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favour.
I love the way that Jesus set out his mission here. Not, however...
The spirit of the Lord God is upon me because he has anointed me to... be a nice person, attend Sunday morning services regularly, be involved in committees, have coffee mornings and arrange fetes.
The spirit of the Lord God is upon me because he has anointed me to... sing loudly, lose myself in worship, be slain in the spirit sometimes, buy CDs, be healed, be blessed, be rich, support Israeli occupation of Palestine.
But the fetes and coffee mornings one sounds so much easier - can't I just do that?
I guess the rub comes when one starts going over how one ought to interpret the passage - "poor, prisoners, blind, oppressed"...
This is why I speak to them in parables:
Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'
But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
I like these words of Jesus; for him, recovery of sight for the blind seems to be more about the ability to see the spiritual dimensions to life; to really 'get' what Jesus was all about. Perhaps those of us who do have some vision, even if very faint, need to try draw people's attention to the spiritual in the world and where God is present. Paul's preaching on Mars hill seems very much along these lines, and something that we can strive to emulate ourselves.
This is something I think about quite a bit, to be honest.
I happily share space with a spectrum of heathens (sic), pagans, polytheists, wiccans, druids, new age channelers, spiritualists, atheists (antitheists), and agnostics (apatheists).
Interacting with people honestly buying in the spiritual marketplace as it were is an eye opener. There is a world of spiritual hunger where Christ has been struck off the menu for many courtesy of what 'Christians' have done in his name.
Jesus is out there working, people are looking for him, but not finding the full revelation of who he is because so many Christians would rather seek the company of their peer group to be slapped on the back and told things they want to believe - while others are grasping as close as they can to Jesus in these other spiritual avenues.
Have you come across 'Song for an Unknown God' by Eden Burning, Tim? Your last comment made me think of it. Here are some of the lyrics:
"So with runes and stones
And shards of light and candled rooms
And journeying souls
Mystical tales
And lasting scents, spirit's landscape
In patterns of time
You're nearer to me than you'll ever know
I'm closer to you than I'm allowed to show."
Nope - not come across that before; never 'eard of 'em. Will look it up - thanks.
Helen was telling me about Gordon Crowther you've mentioned before. Sounds like a very interesting set up indeed.
Makes you wonder if something like that ought to be weighed up for around here.
Going by the discussions on Thurs last week, "A church without walls" would be right up Jo's and Bob's streets.
Christ Church is a church without a roof, and some bits of wall missing...
Well, it was actually after hearing Gordon speak at a Fresh Expressions day that we started thinking about SofaChurch. We put forward his name as a good person to speak at a Circuit service as he was so inspiring.
I was trying to put my finger on what makes people like him 'shine Jesus'. Not all Christians have whatever that quality is and I'm not sure it's something you can fake. Wonder if Helen agrees?
I think perhaps it's something to do with humility, vulnerability, openness... I guess a genuine searching to do what pleases God must come into it too?
Andy suggests we do a SofaChurch trip to Church Without Walls, to see how their set-up works.
I suspect they may be more sung-worshippy than SofaChurch is; certainly at the Fresh Expressions day, the musicians were from that church and were incredibly talented.
Here's a link to the Church Without Walls website.
I don't mind sung worshippy stuff in small doses! I think come a little further into the year some earnest research and recces do need to be done if we're to apply this idea even further.
Excellent summary of the evening, Tim.
Wow, 'church without walls' sounds great.... an opportunity to simply BE a community who love the Lord Jesus and want to experience His reality in all aspects of their lives, without all the 'trappings' of a traditional church set-up. Sounds very complimentary to the vision for the SofaChurch set up.
Its strange though that in my searching for something that is relevant and 'real', I'm beginning to realise that this actually starts with simply spending time alone with God everyday, reading my Bible and praying. (Afterall Jesus had to do it, so these times must be even more important for us.) Hmm doesn't sound very 'radical' though, in many ways it sounds quite boring... Ho hum... I clearly have a lot to learn!!!
Was wanting to carry on exploring being true to Christ and not beeing 'woolly' on Thursday if thats ok. Thought it would be interesting to use 'art' and drawing to grapple with some of the issues further, keeping what is potentially a rather 'heavy' topic fun and relatively light-hearted. Had intended to spend the evening making Mother's Day cards, but exploring radical Christian living seems to be the order of the day!!!! What a challenge!!
Sorry, it's me again!! Just been thinking about the previous comments and wanted to throw in these verses:
"... you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house..." 1 Peter 2:5
"The God who made the world and everything in it,is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands." Acts 17:24-25
I love the picture of people being Christ's church here on earth.. not buildings, particular philosophies or religeous practices but simply folk who are striving to let Jesus 'shine out' of their lives. So in that sense 'church' can be or go anywhere... no barriers, no walls.
But how can we 'practically' do this... ensuring that we are always loving and non-judgemental, real and relevent too?
Hi... Geoff here... I used to work for Church Without Walls, so am happy to tell you all about it!! Gordon is a fab bloke
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